New CTX1300 Looks interesting!!!

[MajorTom]

I guess it depends how you ride a motorcycle. Most of my riding has been on much smaller displacement motorcycles so I've always used the gearbox when I needed extra oomph and never expected it to be there just because I twisted my right wrist. IMHO that's what makes riding a manual transmission motorcycle, or car, a sportier experience than cruising around in a automatic transmission model. If I want the ST to get up and go I just snick the transmission down a couple of notches and away we go. I love the ST's engine and its willingness to rev, just like a great big electric motor humming down there.

 

[Steve398]

We actually had a look at the CTX a while ago, and for us it wouldn't work -

Rider seat too low
Pillion seat too high and too small
Screen too low, although I appreciate there are aftermarket screens to increase the height

Based on that alone we went no further with it. I guess the ST1300 replacement is just a dream that's not shared by Honda themselves

 

[ST Gui]

I've alway enjoyed how easily my old V65 Sabre rolled off the line but it had a 6-spd box. Shifting is all well and good but not having to shift a lot is so much better. While I like my ST well enough one of the first things I noticed was that it was in no hurry to get anywhere without a good twist o' the wrist. There isn't much roll-on from moderate speed without lower gears. At speed and RPM it's a different story.

One day I'll get to demo a CTX. But I almost don't want to experience any low-end grunt that's missing from the ST. It's not about getting impressive hole-shots but about not needing to shift as often at the low end of the dial.

 

[rjs987]

Yeah, you really don't want the experience of county highway riding and then coming to a small town with no stops but a speed limit of 35 and not having to down shift at all because of that low-end grunt that pulls through town without drawing attention of the local LEO and then pulls quickly away back up to highway speed on the other side with just a little twist. All done in 5th gear with no lugging and no strain as if that's just the way it's done. I find I have to suffer through that all the time. :grin:

 

[Rambler358]

I got to check out the CTX in person at the bike show. Not my cup of tea, but I can see how some might be attracted to it.

 

[ST Gui]

Yeah, you really don't want the experience of county highway riding and then coming to a small town with no stops but a speed limit of 35 and not having to down shift at all because of that low-end grunt that pulls through town

On my two rides up north to Montana and back we did a lot of county highway into small towns and the trans got a real work out. Same thing when traffic is slow on the highway and I don't feel like splitting lanes. Maybe we'll get an increase in the bottom end with the ST1600.

 

[veefore]

Maybe it's just me having ridden a CBR600 for 20k............can't say as the low end on the ST is lacking. Don't really find myself "rowing" the gearbox at passing opportunities and the 14 FJR I ride with and I always seem to arrive together, go figure.

 

[JimGregory]

I think the ST has plenty of grunt. I downshift to be kind to the bike. No hardship there. Shouldnt lug any engine. Having more power down low doesnt mean you can lug it.

 

[hoowasat]

I recall one magazine comparing a few sport touring bikes that described the ST1300's engine as "the nuclear power plant of motorcycle engines" because it had power at all RPMs. The same article went on to say that while other bikes excelled in one aspect or another, the ST1300 did everything well.

 

[rjs987]

I admit to being interested in this bike, are the catalytic converters located in removable exhaust (like the ST1300) and are there any after market exhaust offered on the market?

The catalytic converters and mufflers are arranged unlike any other bike I've known. The catalytic converters are located side by side under the center just behind the center stand mount and in front of the rear tire (similar to a few other bikes but it deviates from there). A pipe from each converter goes into the SIDE of the muffler rather than into the front end of the muffler. It's a very short elbow pipe. No after market on those yet and unlikely due to the design. See the muffler drawing in the middle of THIS web page for more detail. There are a few CTX1300 forum members who have drilled out the last stage of the exhaust pipe for more rumble sound. A practice I don't really agree with, but if that's what they want...
I like the sound as it is.

On some of the other comments here. I also don't agree with lugging any engine. The CTX doesn't lug at the lower rpm that I was mentioning. But you can lug any engine when trying very rapid acceleration without enough rpm. The re-tuned engine/transmission allows acceleration at lower rpm than what I've been told works well with the ST1300. Definitely lower rpm than I could run on my ST1100. Not saying the ST doesn't have power down low, just that the CTX is designed with a bit more power at even lower rpm.

 

[ST Gui]

can't say as the low end on the ST is lacking.

Having put a smidge over 50K on my V-65 I can say it is in comparison. Mid to upper RPM range I'd say roll-on throttle was comparable and strong and effortless. On the low end I shift the ST more. It could simply be the lower weight of the Sabre but the net effect is a more responsive bottom end which I can really appreciate.

Having more power down low doesnt mean you can lug it.

No but having more power down low does mean you can operate at lower RPM without lugging the engine. That would be the purpose of designing an engine to have more power down low. I don't recall anybody saying you should lug it.

The ST is by no means anemic but I do enjoy riding a machine with more noticeable low end torque. My old Duc even more so than the Sabre. No lag no lug one-up or two.

Not saying the ST doesn't have power down low, just that the CTX is designed with a bit more power at even lower rpm.

+1 As I've always said I want more. As Mark said you don't get it both ways. I'd be tempted to trade a little HP off the top for some FP on the bottom were it easy and cheap. My wallet says it's a good thing I don't have room for two bikes.

 

[st1100y2k]

Honda of Russellville, AR has the ctx1300 listed at $8995. Wish I could find a new 2012 st1300 for that price. Of course I would need the money and
and ok from the first officer.

 

[ST Gui]

Of course I would need the money and
and ok from the first officer.

It's always the little things.

 

[ibike2havefun]

I recall one magazine comparing a few sport touring bikes ... to say that while other bikes excelled in one aspect or another, the ST1300 did everything well.

Except, of course, sell in numbers that would have persuaded Honda to keep modernizing it and to continue offering it in North America...

 

[MaxPete]

+1 on that.

I work with the auto industry on a daily basis and one thing they don't do is continue to sell products that loose money or fail to sell products that would make money. There are of course some exceptions, but Honda, as one of the smaller companies, has always been and must continue to be pretty astute about where they put their effort.

Of course, a product that falls behind the marketplace through lack of product development will eventually loose sales appeal and I guess that's what has happened with the ST (in comparison to the FJR, Concours and the big Bimmers). Also, looking at the ST V4 16 valve engine, while it is beautiful, durable and performs great, it simply must be about the most expensive four cylinder motorcycle engine to make - and that is likely a good part of what kept retail cost high, sales low and thus that is what killed the product development budget for the bike.

Too bad really.

 

[ST Gui]

Of course, a product that falls behind the marketplace through lack of product development will eventually loose sales appeal and I guess that's what has happened with the ST

+1 But I think the reason the ST was allowed to fall behind because Honda at some point just didn't see that particular niche worth filling beyond the occasional mild upgrade. Yeah they could have sold more if they were kept comparable to the rest of the competition or lead the way. I think Honda was astute enough to decide sport-touring wasn't a rainbow they wanted to chase. If Honda were to prove me wrong in 2017 I'd be ok with that. Don't know that I'd trade up.

 

[Dirtyshirt]

In most tests, the ST is pitted against a few competitors. Over the years, ever since the ST1100 entered the market, the bikes it was tested against were usually: BMW RT, Yamaha FJR, Kawasaki GTR. Each of the above have continued to update and upgrade over the years, listening to their customers.
Honda seem to be stuck on pause. The ST remains unchanged, and there seems to be no intention to upgrade. It seems they have given up on it, and are passing on the Sports Tourer option to the VFR. They also dumped the ever reliable NT700 Deauville, offering no shaft drive alternative. The Police forces who equipped their urban fleet with the Deauville, have had to move, as one to BMW. Same is happening with the ST. They failed to address the stability fears of the ST1300, and forces abandoned it en masse for BMW and Yamaha.
The CTX would have little interest in Europe. It doesn't provide the weather protection we require. It fits into the cruiser market perhaps. But not one for taking the autoroute from Calais to Barcelona or or San Marino for the weekend.

 

[veefore]

One faith that I have in Honda, founded or unfounded, is that they will put something out when it is engineered, tested and ready for prime time and I completely understand I may never see a new ST. Many folks out there tout Yamaha and BMW for constant updates and that's great. If I had greater discretionary income and could afford a new bike every time it was updated, that'd be swell. I cannot however afford or want to be a beta tester for these "updates".....not for motorcycles flirting with and above 20k price wise.
Stop Ride orders are not acceptable to me as in the case of the BMW's shock and the new Yamaha R1's transmission https://rideapart.com/articles/yamaha-yzf-r1-recall-potential-transmission-lock Let alone the other transmission issues Yamaha had recently http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/04/09/yamaha-motorcycles-recall-notice-for-potential-gearbox-issue/ (one of the updates to the 16' FJR happens to be 6th gear). I know, I'll be stuck on my boring antiquated bike for a while....so be it.

 

[Rambler358]

Also, looking at the ST V4 16 valve engine, while it is beautiful, durable and performs great, it simply must be about the most expensive four cylinder motorcycle engine to make - and that is likely a good part of what kept retail cost high, sales low and thus that is what killed the product development budget for the bike.

I don't think it was the V4 engine that killed the ST. After all, Honda just re-tuned the engine and put it in the CTX.

 

[coolbreez1]

--take a look at the CTX1300;

--now take a look at the Harley Road Glide; which is selling like hot cakes among all cruisers; do you suppose Honda was trying to capture some of that market?