Tire Rotation Direction

[kjkconcours]

Went to have a new front tire put on today, and got a surprise. They told me to come back about a hour. I went and had breakfast down the road. Came back for my wheel with new tire on it, and the guy how changed the tire told me my old front tire was on in the wrong direction with the tire rotation arrow going backwards. My old tire only had 5k on in and was cupped and shopped very bad. I never had a tire wear like that. Now I no the reason. Now I will check every tire I have put on.

 

[Catmandu2]

Re: TIRE ROTATION

Same thing happened to me on one of my CB's,,, along with a couple of other very serious errors associated with having a new set of tires installed. Bottom line seems to be that some shops put kids and rookie tech's on tire changes. So beware and take nothing for granted,,, Cat'

 

[Don B]

Re: TIRE ROTATION

Same consideration could apply to getting a tire rotation done on a cage. Some hy per cars use directional tires, so they can't be crisscrossed when they are rotated at a tire shop. My Mustang GT falls into that category even though it doesn't have directional tires on it. The owners manual specifies that the tires be swapped end to end (front to back) on the same side if it is equipped with 17" tires, which applies to the GT model. Quite a few current hyper cars also have different tire sizes on the front compared to the rear, as most motorcycles have done for decades.

 

[SMSW]

Re: TIRE ROTATION

Bottom line seems to be that some shops put kids and rookie tech's on tire changes. So beware and take nothing for granted,,, Cat'

More than a few shops do this. My friend and long time auto mechanic puts his new employees on the tire changing machine very early in their employment. He double checks everything they do, but I'm sure other shops are not as diligent nor as honest as he is.

And, I've checked what mechanics do on my car/bike whenever I can - most of them are human and make mistakes like I do....

 

[dduelin]

Beyond unusual wear the more important thing lost when a tire is on backwards is the compromised ability of the tire to pump water out of and away from the contact patch. Presumably engineers spent time designing the tread pattern and compounds(s) to do this while providing long life and low noise.

 

[ST Gui]

There are riders who tout the advantages (?!) of mounting the front tire backwards. I never remember what those are supposed to be but always wonder if they ever ride in the rain.

Back when tire commercials were a big thing on TV demonstrating how sipes channel water to the sides of the tire to reduce hydroplaning was popular. I haven't seen a tire advert of any kind for years and years. I don't ride in the wet if it can be helped. And I won't have my tire(s) mounted backwards anytime soon.

 

[DeanR]

Re: TIRE ROTATION

Quite a few current hyper cars also have different tire sizes on the front compared to the rear,

What the heck is a hyper car? The supercar variety?

 

[Blrfl]

There are riders who tout the advantages (?!) of mounting the front tire backwards. I never remember what those are supposed to be but always wonder if they ever ride in the rain.

I ran a BT020F front backwards and didn't notice it until it started to wear oddly st about 9,500 miles. That included a bunch of time in the rain, too. Can't say that I noticed that the handling or grip was any different.

--Mark

 

[Bush]

Not only direction of rotation, some shops seem ignorant of the little paint dots put on some brands of tires indicating the lightest part of the tire, which indicates where the tire should be mounted in relation to the valve stem.

 

[dduelin]

I ran a BT020F front backwards and didn't notice it until it started to wear oddly st about 9,500 miles. That included a bunch of time in the rain, too. Can't say that I noticed that the handling or grip was any different.

--Mark

That's the thing with grip in the rain. You have it until you don't.

 

[Blrfl]

That's the thing with grip [-]in the rain[/-]. You have it until you don't.

Fixed that for you. I ratchet it back in the wet anyway, and most times it isn't hard to sense when you're pushing it too hard.

--Mark

 

[dduelin]

Fixed that for you. I ratchet it back in the wet anyway, and most times it isn't hard to sense when you're pushing it too hard.

--Mark

Thanks, but it didn't need fixing. Not having trouble with grip in the wet with a reversed tire proves only you didn't exceed what was available. If you needed more in the unforeseen situation that didn't happen - what you had was less than if the tire was corrected mounted. Or are you suggesting that tire direction of directional tires doesn't matter?

 

[Blrfl]

Thanks, but it didn't need fixing. Not having trouble with grip [-]in the wet[/-] with a reversed tire proves only you didn't exceed what was available.

Fixed that one for you, too. You'll forgive me for restating the obvious, but half the definition of successfully riding a motorcycle is not exceeding available grip, which I'm pretty sure applies under all conditions. Until somebody comes up with a way to measure the percentage of available grip is being used and display it on the dash in real time, we're left with seat-of-the-pants methods that involve exploring the limits, learning what it feels like before and after the tires start to slip and applying that knowledge to riding.

If you needed more in the unforeseen situation that didn't happen - what you had was less than if the tire was corrected mounted. Or are you suggesting that tire direction of directional tires doesn't matter?

You've been a member here almost as long as I have. Do I have a history of making suggestions like that?

I don't doubt for a minute that a correctly-mounted tire does a better job disposing of water and provides more grip. The arrow on the tire is there for a reason. I'm also sure that under controlled conditions, the difference could be quantified, and you know me, I'm all about measurement.

What I am suggesting is that if my experience -- and I have 11,500 miles of experience on a backward tire that I'm not particularly proud of, but I do have it -- is any indication, the amount of available grip on a front BT020F isn't night-and-day different for most of the tire's life when it's mounted the wrong way. You may do what you wish with that information, including ignoring it or telling me I'm full of it.

--Mark

 

[rulbe]

Re: TIRE ROTATION

What the heck is a hyper car? The supercar variety?

Sorry don't want to side track topic!

Here is a picture of Honda / Acura new supercar! It is a really nice car! Out of my price range but still get a chance to work on it. Here is a good You Tube video from Jay Leno's garage about it.

Enjoy
Randy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8JwgDAPPqg

 

[acedantinne]

New bike has PR4. Tire change front & rear went with the same. ME= Don't think I would want to run this tire in reverse. There is no dots on this brand tire.

 

[SMSW]

I've often wondered about the tread pattern and i'm beginning to be of the opinion that the actual pattern doesn't matter when it comes to clearing water. My opinion may be wrong, but here's my reasoning

I tend to agree for several reasons.
1. Most of us don't push the limits all the time and the capabilities of our machines/tires (not just bikes for the machine part) usually exceed the rider/operator's skill level.
2. Most of us tend to dial back aggressive riding in rain and are not dependent on the tires' maximum performance.
3. Tire manufacturers have to accommodate the idiots in the tire stores who persist in mounting tires backwards, with weight dots randomly placed, upside down, and in every way they can mistakenly mount a tire. Liability being what it is today, if motorcycle tires provided 100% grip when mounted with the direction arrow properly oriented, and 0% when mounted backward, said arrow had better be LARGE and WHITE - or the tire had better be impossible to mount backwards.
4. Things tend to spiral out of control when numerous mistakes are made. Challenger would not have exploded if it had not been cold, if the seals did not lose their flexibility in the cold, if there had not been pressure to launch, etc. We won't notice the loss of some traction if, as Mark said, we ride while not exceeding the available grip. Try doing the Tail of the Dragon flat out, in the rain, with your tires backwards, in heavy traffic, right after the tar snake guy did his thing, and you might have a problem.
5. For most of us, most of the time, making one mistake doesn't bite our bottoms. (Much).

 

[Rekoob]

I've really never given it much thought until reading this thread. I do/have double checked the arrow when putting the tires back on the bike and so far have not had the reversed arrow problem.
In my thinking the tire compound is what's providing the grip, regardless of which direction the tire is rotating. The compound isn't going to change. Now, that being said I can't say the same for the tread but as stated tread patterns have changed over the years and other than moving water away from the contact patch in a pretty efficient manner it probably doesn't really matter which direction that happens. Any tire will hydroplane at some point.
My guess is the manufacturer testing indicated more rubber chipping due to the direction the rubber is put on and that drove the arrow.

 

[dduelin]

I don't doubt for a minute that a correctly-mounted tire does a better job disposing of water and provides more grip. The arrow on the tire is there for a reason. I'm also sure that under controlled conditions, the difference could be quantified, and you know me, I'm all about measurement.



--Mark

I had a few minutes to look for something that quantifies why the direction of this particular tire makes a difference in the rain. It's from Bridgestone and Michelin probably has something similar for Pilot Roads. I run this tire on one of my bikes and I wouldn't want to run it backwards. Sure, I probably wouldn't fall down in the first rain storm if they were mounted backwards but why give away the extra grip provided? I might need it someday.

 

[Blrfl]

...why give away the extra grip provided? I might need it someday.

In a similar vein, why give away extra grip you might need by intentionally riding on anything less than an ideal surface?

Here's the problem: you're making this sound as if I had the tire installed that way on purpose or that I advocate doing it, neither of which is the case. It was an accident from which I was able to collect a few unscientific observations about one incorrectly-mounted front Bridgestone BT020F mounted on one ST1300 operated by one rider compared to one correctly-mounted front Bridgestone BT020F mounted on the same ST1300 operated by the same rider under similar conditions and with the same riding style. The most significant of those observations was "on the whole, it doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference."

Finito.

--Mark

 

[W0QNX]

Snip.. The most significant of those observations was "on the whole, it doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference."

Finito.

--Mark

I'll agree not a great deal of difference. There is a whole group of "testers" being the rear tire on front group of riders. Not just this forum but many forums. I don't think a correct direction is out there for rear on front. I've ran Michlen Activ tires both arrow forwards and arrow backwards on front. All I can say is no crashes yet. In the rain I always slow down so who knows how bad it could be.

I've hydroplaned with the arrow correct on the correct front tire more times then I care to mention and the best thing to do is slow down. Those truck ruts are no fun in rain. Just a small reminder, beware the exit ramps on the Interstates in rain. They usually have a curve and the trucks sink them down pretty good. My wife and I both went down (seperate bikes, same time) in a light rain because the rain was 4" deep in the truck ruts on the exit ramp.

My humble opinions.