Are We Invisible?

You would think that they could see this coming but I don't bank on it.
 

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To answer the question -
We may not be 'invisible', but we'd better assume that we are regardless of how much hi-viz stuff and additional lighting we have.
At the end of the day, if motorcycles do not 'figure' into the driver's 'scan' we are invisible to that driver.
Since we cannot discern which ones see us and which ones do not, it is safer to assume they do not see us and ride accordingly.
The cars will always have 'right of weight' even if they do not have 'right of way'.;)
 
Uncle Phil said:
To answer the question -
We may not be 'invisible', but we'd better assume that we are regardless of how much hi-viz stuff and additional lighting we have.
At the end of the day, if motorcycles do not 'figure' into the driver's 'scan' we are invisible to that driver.
Since we cannot discern which ones see us and which ones do not, it is safer to assume they do not see us and ride accordingly.
The cars will always have 'right of weight' even if they do not have 'right of way'.;)
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I try to be seen, but there are over 5,000 vehicle/train collisions in the USA every year. We will NEVER be as visible as a train.
 
Valker said:
I try to be seen, but there are over 5,000 vehicle/train collisions in the USA every year. We will NEVER be as visible as a train.
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Being seen is a good thing but sometimes I wish I had a train horn on my ST1100s! (I have 132db Fiams which are pretty good).
And they also pull out in front of fire trucks with all their lights and sirens ... :nuts:
Having been hit from the side (totaled the bike and came close to totaling me), I assume the worst and hope for the best from drivers.
 
I felt very invisible on my black VStar 650.
When I started riding the white ST 1300 it honestly felt as if drivers took greater notice of my presence on the road.
It's possible drivers initially mistake the bike for a police bike but then I found out in September that they are now black here.

I'm considering replacing the stock horn with a couple of air horns... back in the stone age I used to have a Fiat 124 Spider with dual Fiamms & got a kick out of watching people rubbernecking for the semi on their tails.
 
There's another issue which is easy to test. Motion induced blindness.

This is where in a scene of moving objects, any object that is stationary becomes invisible to the observer.
A simole demonstration is here https://michaelbach.de/ot/mot-mib/

Relate that to the scene observed by a car emerging onto a main road from a side road. The driver sees all of the moving objects, but the stationary objects are filtered out by the brain, The distant motorbike heading straight towards the car is, to all intents and purposes, stationary. It is not changing size enough as it approached, it is in the same place compared to a second before. It us not moving. Bright headlights don't help this - in fact I reckon that they hinder it.

So nothing moving - the car pulls out.

The answer is to position yourself as you approach so that when you get near to the danger point, you can move across the driver's line of sight rather than directly towards his/her eyes. So a car emerging from your left side - approach on the left, move across to the right as you get closer. Make sure you do this when the driver is looking. If you cant see their eyes or they are hidden behind the quarter post be ready with the horn and brake.

Don't rely on your headlights to be noticed. You can see a train's headlight miles down the track and it appears to be stopped. It appears to be stopped for ages. Then suddenly it thunders past at 100 mph.
 
I take an active approach to being seen and not hit. In the Seattle area, for the wet times of the year, the sky is gray, the road is gray or black and the road spray makes everything in between gray.

I'm a firm believer in reflective tape. It takes no wiring...but it works as well as any lights you can install. All our maintenance stands on the flightline had reflective tape and on an unlit flightline, you could see the reflection a quarter mile away.

I try to buy hi-vis clothing when I can. I asked a friend when I first started riding why he went from all black to wearing a reflective vest. He said he watched a black Labrador retriever get hit on the freeway. In the dark, one car after another hit the poor dog. He didn't want to be in the same position by wearing only black.

And then I practice good lane positioning to the point it feels natural. I can't remember when I used my horn last. If I had to use my horn, I've failed.

Chris
 
Yes.

I've seen dashcam footage from a fire engine in full song, colliding with a car that pulled out right in front of it.

If it can happen under those conditions it tells me there's nothing a motorcyclist can do to.prevent or avoid a similar fate. But you should keep trying, nevertheless. Just don't ever believe your gizmos are enough, and be vigilant and wary at all times when riding.

Expect the best, plan for the worst.
 
Uncle Phil said:
To answer the question -
We may not be 'invisible', but we'd better assume that we are regardless of how much hi-viz stuff and additional lighting we have.
At the end of the day, if motorcycles do not 'figure' into the driver's 'scan' we are invisible to that driver.
Since we cannot discern which ones see us and which ones do not, it is safer to assume they do not see us and ride accordingly.
The cars will always have 'right of weight' even if they do not have 'right of way'.;)
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Yes,i agree. My first year back to riding i spent a ton of time watching u tube. defensive riding and crashes. Right after that we lost paul cb and timmy. So, yea, i trust no one and will do anything that makes me more visible. Here in colorado, we have spaced out vacationers and critters everywhere.
Slow down.
 
Pop-Pop said:
Yes,i agree. My first year back to riding i spent a ton of time watching u tube. defensive riding and crashes. Right after that we lost paul cb and timmy. So, yea, i trust no one and will do anything that makes me more visible. Here in colorado, we have spaced out vacationers and critters everywhere.
Slow down.
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ibike2havefun said:
I've seen dashcam footage from a fire engine in full song, colliding with a car that pulled out right in front of it.
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Here you go;

Loud Pipes Save.......Nothing | Motorcycle Safety

Well, I seem to be in the majority as I really don't like obnoxiously loud pipes but nicely tuned moderately loud is okay. For several years, I rode with a group of friends on fairly long road trips... week or two duration. Two of them ride Harleys with straight pipes. Not an issue as long...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com
 
Valker said:
try to be seen, but there are over 5,000 vehicle/train collisions in the USA every year. We will NEVER be as visible as a train.
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Not the same thing. Regarding 'invisibility' we seem to be talking about conspicuity and that people allegedly look and don't see us as riders – looked but didn't see. After eliminating a host of other factors (impaired driver/mechanical failure/impaired vision/etc) I think a breakdown of vehicle/train collisions would show the train being invisible to other vehicle drivers plays/played a small part in collisions.

What remains are the deliberate actions of auto driver wrapped in stupidity i.e. trying to "beat the train". People just don't gauge the speed correctly. For the sake of discussion I suppose it's possible someone approached tracks and looked down the line both ways and didn't see a train. They start to cross and WHAM! It was there all the time. They just didn't see it. Nah I'm not buying it. Not even at 90mph.

No we won't be as visible as a train but that's mostly if not wholly irrelevant. I've just scanned this thread lightly as it's all been said before. I didn't see anyone say that extra lights or conspicuity efforts will guarantee being crash-free. Everybody here (am I being generous?) knows no amount of conspicuity can do that – practically speaking. No one suggests that it can replace situational awareness or defensive driving but most believe it can augment SA. At least I do.
 
ibike2havefun said:
I've seen dashcam footage from a fire engine in full song, colliding with a car that pulled out right in front of it.
Click to expand...
The key is knowing exactly why that collision occurred. Did the suspect driver look but not see the fire engine or hear the fire engine? Did the driver even look i.e. distracted driving? Or did they look and think they could beat it? Finding the the exact or all collision factors often relies on drivers' testimony. Few say

I was looking and it wasn't there
I was in an online debate of the contemporary relevance of War and Peace
I was just polishing off the last of my Old Grandad smoothy

The common claims of "I didn't see it" in incidents like that just don't wash with me. We know there are no guarantees but we do belts and suspenders to varying degrees.
 
Larry Fine said:
How about, "My eyes saw it, but my brain didn't."
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That is exactly what the link that I posted in post#7 is demonstrating. You look at the rotating shape with all of the dots moving around. The ones that stay still disappear. They are not there. In fact, they are there, but they are not moving - so your brain ignores them. Move your head slightly and they 're-appear'.

But this doesn't explain the people who just don't look in the first place. Thankfully, they are very easy to spot. They will be the ones in a car.

As for the moving wheel technique - it is a technique that is advocated in the Police rider's handbook - Roadcraft. But that info is a tad too late for me. I look at their faces and eyes - that gives me a better clue about what they are about to do before they have even done it. It's something that I use to great effect on a pushbike. You know when someone is looking directly at you. When they see that you are looking at their eyes, you stop being this little bike that can be ignored, You become a 'threat' to them and they take much more notice - not least because they have seen that you are so much bigger than them, but also because they know that you have seen who they are, and what they are about to do is being closely observed.

There is a built in 'guilty' reflex. You do something a little silly, and there's a police car. First thing you do is scratch the side of your face. Subconsciously hiding your face. Police are trained to look for that. Noticing that you are being looked at is the biggest deterrent to rash moves that I have found. It is very easy to get this effect on a pushbike, but it works very well on a motorbike too. Lift your visor to improve the effect.

Spot the early warning signs.
Its a car
The driver has pulled up after the white line.
He looked left first (UK) / He looked right first
I cannot see his eyes - so he hasn't seen me.
S/he's a young driver.
S/he's an old driver.
S/he's riding the clutch / hasn't fully stopped.
There's a gap in the traffic coming the other way.
They have been looking in the other direction for a long time - waiting for that gap to emerge. They checked in your direction and they think its clear. If you haven't yet seen their eyes as you get closer, that is the time to beep the horn.
 
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Not mentioned yet, the increasing number of those ignorant egocentric morons who are just doing it on purpose...

Those lulled in the false safety of the vault like silence inside their housewife tanks (SUVs) and/or the outlived ideological superiority of those EV operators...

Just last month I had such a "head teacher" cutting me off riding the 2nd lane on a completely empty carriageway in the obvious attempt to slow me down to "his" 80kph... on a road with 100kph posted...
 
I've been wondering.................
Is it time to subject drivers to a more stringent 'fighter pilot'-like training (the alertness, response and target recognition...not the fun part) both at initial application for a license and periodically afterward? Three possible outcomes....license issued, mandatory repeat of the class, or walking-only papers?
I'm trying to be civil about a solution but it's kind'a difficult when I see a growing sense of entitlement, 'I'm better than you' or complete incompetence on our highways here....with few significant repercussions.
Around-town and rural highway conditions seem quite civil in comparison. That's where we prefer to ride but it now takes a while to get there.
 
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