Mirror housing fitment question

[STrangr]

Hey everyone, I got to the point where i'm frustrated enough to accept the embarrassment of posting this.
I replaced my right mirror housing after losing it while hitting a bone rattling pot hole in Connecticut last summer.
I noticed that the new housing kept coming off with every gentle bump. Upon closer inspection, I realised the bottom isn't closing as tightly as the top.
An even closer look, made me notice the bottom clip is not grabbing the housing all the way (if at all). The other two are nice and tight.
I have taken it off, inspected everything, and tried to snap it in at least a dozen times, with no luck.
I tried widening and tightening the clips, removing the rubber weather seal? Moved the wiring around, etc. with no luck.
I even went as far as replacing the housing and have the same issue, so it's not the housing.

Can anyone see anything wrong from the photos?
I'm at a loss here.

Thanks in advance
Mike

 

[Mellow]

I remember having to pop the bottom with my hand to set it in place.

 

[STrangr]

I remember having to pop the bottom with my hand to set it in place.

Thanks Joe.
I have tried a couple of very firm whacks, any harder I will probably break something lol.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

The tie-wrap that you are using as a tether is supposed to slide in to the slot under the hole where the wires go through. Where you have it it can not slide inward as the mirror is moved inward. Is it possible that the tie-wrap is bunching up behind the mirror and not allowing it to seat properly?

The spring clip that you have around the bottom mirror stud receptacle is not supposed to be there. Those spring clips are only supposed to be installed on the two upper receptacles.
I don't see how that could be the cause of your problem, just pointing it out.

 

[motornut]

My 04 has three clips to hold in the housing if that is what you are meaning. I put the wiring through the bigger hole forward of the smaller one and is that a washer underneath the rear screw? That seems to be the same thickness as what the gap is

 

[STrangr]

The tie-wrap that you are using as a tether is supposed to slide in to the slot under the hole where the wires go through. Where you have it it can not slide inward as the mirror is moved inward. Is it possible that the tie-wrap is bunching up behind the mirror and not allowing it to seat properly?

The spring clip that you have around the bottom mirror stud receptacle is not supposed to be there. Those spring clips are only supposed to be installed on the two upper receptacles.
I don't see how that could be the cause of your problem, just pointing it out.

Good info Andrew, I appreciate it. I'll correct it and try again.

 

[STrangr]

My 04 has three clips to hold in the housing if that is what you are meaning. I put the wiring through the bigger hole forward of the smaller one and is that a washer underneath the rear screw? That seems to be the same thickness as what the gap is

What looks like a washer is part of the head on the screw, must be the angle of the photo. There are no washers installed on the screws.
And yes, those 3 clips is what I'm referring to. It seems the lower one is not grabbing the pin on mirror housing.

 

[STrangr]

The tie-wrap that you are using as a tether is supposed to slide in to the slot under the hole where the wires go through. Where you have it it can not slide inward as the mirror is moved inward. Is it possible that the tie-wrap is bunching up behind the mirror and not allowing it to seat properly?

The spring clip that you have around the bottom mirror stud receptacle is not supposed to be there. Those spring clips are only supposed to be installed on the two upper receptacles.
I don't see how that could be the cause of your problem, just pointing it out.

I tried moving the "tie-wrap" lower, and also tried removing it and the wiring for the signal light just in case. Still no luck.
Frustrating to say the least.
More frustrating, when I went to remove the plug for the ground, the cable disconnected from the clip.

 

[motornut]

Ok, did they change the design on the spring clips between 04 and newer.
I too had the ground come off from the plug, ran both ends to a ground and worked just fine.

 

[Larry Fine]

Can you seat the bottom if you snap it in first?

 

[STrangr]

Can you seat the bottom if you snap it in first?

No I tried that. As soon as I give it a whack the to 2 pop in and bottom stay slightly out.

 

[STrangr]

Ok, did they change the design on the spring clips between 04 and newer.
I too had the ground come off from the plug, ran both ends to a ground and worked just fine.

Not sure about a change in design. I have the same spring clips on the left mirror and have no issues.
I was considering either adding a different plug to both ground cables or just soldering them together.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

You tried a new mirror so it is not likely the mirror.
All I can suggest is that you compare the left and right mirrors and fairings closely. Try to determine if the receptacles protrude the same amount on both sides. Maybe something is bent with the cowl stay causing the receptacles to be recessed to much, or protrude to much, to properly accept the mirror studs.

 

[jfheath]

If something is not in its proper place then that gap also appears when I put my mirrors on. Eg cables, rubber shroud, cable tie.

The rubber shroud at the bottom has a protruding locating 'peg' shaped like a capstain. When you first offer the mirror housing to the fairing, that peg has to be located so that it will slip into the slot in the lower mirror housing. The top part of that same shroud has a hole that slips over a peg on the fairing.

I've spotted a couple of things that may be contributing to your problem.

1. Some of the jaws of the mirror spring clips are deformed. Some do not have springs. The parts are still available

95002 02100 is the tube spring clip
88115 MT3 000 is the 4 -jaw spring

The fiche diagram doesn't show the hose spring clip for all 3 fittings, but my bike has a spring on all 3 on each side.

You could remove these and try to get the jaws back into shape, Also tighten the circular hose spring. These are normally just loose around the jaws.

2. Your electric cables are routed incorrectly. They are emerging through the small hole rather than the larger hole. I find that the cables need to be able to flex as the mirror is knocked into position. Anything that prevents this stops the housing from sitting properly in the clips. That small hole is intended for the cable tie to secure the mirror - the bulky end goes through the hole and then drops down into the slot. It is a stupid design that doesn't work, but that was the intention. I resisted the temptation to put cables through there as it would be a chafing point for the cables. Sometimes the connectors get trapped between the mirror itself and the housing - preventing the housing from seating properly.

When knocking in the mirror, make absolutely sure that all three male parts on the mirror are seated snugly just inside the flared opening of the 4-jaw springs. The mirror should not be able to move if gently pressed against them. Check the position of the connectors, the wires and the rubber shroud. It should knock in with a single sharp blow on the pointy end of the mirror housing with the heel of your hand. The deformed clips are evidence that at some point the mirror has not been properly positioned before being knocked into place. Once deformed, it is always likely to happen.

Suggestion. Remove the mirror. 2 bolts. Remove the rubbber shroud. Re-route the cables - careful not to loose the ends inside the fairing. Remove the bulbs and wiring. You will be able to see more clearly what is happening with the fitting. What can happen is that the deformed jaws prevent the male part from being located properly. something gets bent or trapped, and each time you attempt to knock in the mirror, it makes the problem worse.

If you cannot work out what is going wrong, try borrowing some clips from the other side.

--------

I find the mirror retaining strap to be a pain. The single screw through the narrow end if the cable tie is ridiculous and eventually fails.
I have a permanent cable tie threaded through the hollow mirror pivot as a loop. A permanent attaching point.I have another permanent tie looped through the mirror housing and the grey bulb/lens housing. ( you have to slacken the housing screws to get it through and retighten them after). The original tie with the release latch is used to loop them together. This has proved to be more effective than the Honda arrangement. I know it is three things that could go wrong, but it has never failed me - unlike the Honda arrangement.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

 

[ST Gui]

I think this says it all exactly. The clip on the bottom setting spring isn't there from the factory. But if that setting spring is open wide enough (same as the upper two I wouldn't think it'd be much of a problem. But it might take a bigger <WHACK> to remove it. And it's unsettling enough without the clip.

The left setting spring missing its clip is a definite problem. The right setting spring may as well be missing its clip being splayed open as it is.

Those two will easily accept the pins on the mirror housing. But trying to set the bottom pin just pops them out of place.

Pricey as they are I'd replace all three setting springs and the two clips. It looks like the sub frame might have to be removed unless you have elfin hands that can sneak behind it. But that's a WAG on my part. Somebody will know better. Carefully aligning and setting the top two pins in the springs is key. Then the bottom is properly positioned to be seated with a smack. (If the top two aren't properly seated you risk damaging the bottom spring and starting a downward spiral.)

Anyway that's not possible until your replace those components. 'Till then there's always duct tape.

Can anyone see anything wrong from the photos?

Great pics btw. They made it easy for the problem to be identified by the forensic analyst.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Pricey as they are I'd replace all three setting springs and the two clips. It looks like the sub frame might have to be removed unless you have elfin hands that can sneak behind it. But that's a WAG on my part. Somebody will know better.

They are easily replaced without removing anything other than the mirror cover. They are screwed on from the outside.

 

[STrangr]

If something is not in its proper place then that gap also appears when I put my mirrors on. Eg cables, rubber shroud, cable tie.

The rubber shroud at the bottom has a protruding locating 'peg' shaped like a capstain. When you first offer the mirror housing to the fairing, that peg has to be located so that it will slip into the slot in the lower mirror housing. The top part of that same shroud has a hole that slips over a peg on the fairing.

I've spotted a couple of things that may be contributing to your problem.

1. Some of the jaws of the mirror spring clips are deformed. Some do not have springs. The parts are still available

9500202100 is the tube spring clip
88115MT3000 is the 4 -jaw spring

The fiche diagram doesn't show the hose spring clip for all 3 fittings, but my bike has a spring on all 3 on each side.

You could remove these and try to get the jaws back into shape, Also tighten the circular hose spring. These are normally just loose around the jaws.

2. Your electric cables are routed incorrectly. They are emerging through the small hole rather than the larger hole. I find that the cables need to be able to flex as the mirror is knocked into position. Anything that prevents this stops the housing from sitting properly in the clips. That small hole is intended for the cable tie to secure the mirror - the bulky end goes through the hole and then drops down into the slot. It is a stupid design that doesn't work, but that was the intention. I resisted the temptation to put cables through there as it would be a chafing point for the cables. Sometimes the connectors get trapped between the mirror itself and the housing - preventing the housing from seating properly.

When knocking in the mirror, make absolutely sure that all three male parts on the mirror are seated snugly just inside the flared opening of the 4-jaw springs. The mirror should not be able to move if gently pressed against them. Check the position of the connectors, the wires and the rubber shroud. It should knock in with a single sharp blow on the pointy end of the mirror housing with the heel of your hand. The deformed clips are evidence that at some point the mirror has not been properly positioned before being knocked into place. Once deformed, it is always likely to happen.

Suggestion. Remove the mirror. 2 bolts. Remove the rubbber shroud. Re-route the cables - careful not to loose the ends inside the fairing. Remove the bulbs and wiring. You will be able to see more clearly what is happening with the fitting. What can happen is that the deformed jaws prevent the male part from being located properly. something gets bent or trapped, and each time you attempt to knock in the mirror, it makes the problem worse.

If you cannot work out what is going wrong, try borrowing some clips from the other side.

--------

I find the mirror retaining strap to be a pain. The single screw through the narrow end if the cable tie is ridiculous and eventually fails.
I have a permanent cable tie threaded through the hollow mirror pivot as a loop. A permanent attaching point.I have another permanent tie looped through the mirror housing and the grey bulb/lens housing. ( you have to slacken the housing screws to get it through and retighten them after). The original tie with the release latch is used to loop them together. This has proved to be more effective than the Honda arrangement. I know it is three things that could go wrong, but it has never failed me - unlike the Honda arrangement.

Thanks for the helpful info.

 

[STrangr]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and the useful info and images.. I am happy to report that with a quick call to Larry @Igofar, he too suggested to remove the lower spring and it worked like a charm. Mirror is on nice and tight with no gaps.

 

[Igofar]

They are easily replaced without removing anything other than the mirror cover. They are screwed on from the outside.

But there is a LOOSE nut on the backside that will fall.
You can easily slip a wrench on the nuts to hold them while to replace them.