ST1100 engine removal question

well, I think I may have run into an engine that's been serviced by someone who used an impact wrench to reassemble things.

I got the left head off without too much difficulty, but noticed that the 6mm bolts that hold down the cam bearings were too tight. They required a pretty good tug to break them loose, and a loud "crack" with each one breaking loose. And pulling the top bearing plate off was way tighter than I remember on my own bike. The head bolts took way more than their spec 42 ft-lbs to break loose, but I got them out without incident.

But the real fun was on the right side. Bearings were similar to the left, but 2 of the 6 head bolts just would not break loose. The 4 that did break loose were probably at least 75 ft-lbs before they released (15" Snap-On 1/2" drive ratchet with all my strength). Edit: I've used this ratchet for years to loosen lug nuts on my truck that are 125 ft-lb and it was less effort than with these bolts, so I think the 75 ft-lb figure is probably way low, they were crazy tight.

So, the right head is going to stay put for now, I used a 6pt SnapOn socket and its a bit buggered now, and I think the bolt head is too, I can't seem to get a really good drive on it now.

Any chance at all that these were factory torqued bolts and they just got this stubborn over 27 years on the bike? Or did someone likely put it back together with an impact?
 
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dwalby said:
Any chance at all that these were factory torqued bolts and they just got this stubborn over 27 years on the bike?
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Well, heat cycles plus contamination with micro particles can bake-in those bolts quite good...
But all should be equally tight then... variations would be an indication of someone been at it... :unsure:

In the black '96 non-ABS I'd refurbed I found one M6 for the cam holders been stripped... had to set up a "surgery field" with duct tape and the shop-vac nozzle zip-tied aside to drill and tap a TimeSert...
 
ST1100Y said:
In the black '96 non-ABS I'd refurbed I found one M6 for the cam holders been stripped...
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That’s been reported before — some shop mechanic put one of the four 6x45mm cam holder bolts into one of the two 6x40mm bolt’s holes. In a steel vs aluminum situation the aluminum loses.
 
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John OoSTerhuis said:
That’s been reported before — some shop mechanic put one of the four 6x45mm cam holder bolts into one of the two 6x40mm bolt’s holes. In a steel vs aluminum situation the aluminum loses.
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Or didn't clean the blind holes from oil with compressed air, expansion then drives the bolt out...
 
dwalby said:
well, I think I may have run into an engine that's been serviced by someone who used an impact wrench to reassemble things.

Any chance at all that these were factory torqued bolts and they just got this stubborn over 27 years on the bike? Or did someone likely put it back together with an impact?
Click to expand...

I got the engine out today without any drama.

But given the size and weight of that thing I'm glad I don't have to put it back in the frame. Probably not too bad with two guys to wrestle it back in, but with one old guy it might be a bit of work to get everything to align properly for re-installation.

I noticed something earlier that might explain the overtorqued head bolts. On two locations towards the back of the engine it has "SC126" written on the case in a light color sharpie. It kinda screamed "salvage yard" to me when I saw it. I'm guessing Honda knows their engines well enough on the assembly line that they don't need to mark them like that, so I suspect this may be an engine that was replaced at some point in time and who knows what was done to it. I don't recall seeing anything like those markings on my factory engine when I had all the bodywork off earlier this month, anybody else ever seen that?
 
dwalby said:
I got the engine out today without any drama.

But given the size and weight of that thing I'm glad I don't have to put it back in the frame. Probably not too bad with two guys to wrestle it back in, but with one old guy it might be a bit of work to get everything to align properly for re-installation.

I noticed something earlier that might explain the overtorqued head bolts. On two locations towards the back of the engine it has "SC126" written on the case in a light color sharpie. It kinda screamed "salvage yard" to me when I saw it. I'm guessing Honda knows their engines well enough on the assembly line that they don't need to mark them like that, so I suspect this may be an engine that was replaced at some point in time and who knows what was done to it. I don't recall seeing anything like those markings on my factory engine when I had all the bodywork off earlier this month, anybody else ever seen that?
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Actually, seems like I have before on 'original' engines but then my memory ain't what it used to be! ;)
Usually on salvage engines they only remove the starter, alternator and the carbs and the engine bears the 'scars and scrapes' of being removed. :biggrin:
 
Hi Doug. I've been busy for the last while and just had a chance to catch up to this thread. I mentioned the process that you are going through to Deb and she shed a tear for her old bike. As for the possibility of it being a salvage engine, we bought it with 39,626 miles on it in October 2011 in Seattle, WA. I got some of the previous owner's maintenance records and there is no mention of anything as significant as an engine replacement.

By the way, Jim Litton is the person who bought my 2001 wineberry. Unfortunately, it has developed carb issues also and I'm not sure what the current status is. I just got back to Grand Forks and haven't had a chance to pull the replacement engine cover to replace the one that I lost during my test ride.

I hope this works out well for both of you.

Al
 
dwalby said:
On two locations towards the back of the engine it has "SC126" written on the case in a light color sharpie.
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Dunno, on all engines and gear boxes I've worked on or call my own I found yellow crayon/paint inscriptions/markings which I believe are left as [inspection checked] by the factory workers...
In fact, I started the same like marking bolts already torqued... Takumi, Sensei and such...
 
Al_b said:
Hi Doug. I've been busy for the last while and just had a chance to catch up to this thread. I mentioned the process that you are going through to Deb and she shed a tear for her old bike. As for the possibility of it being a salvage engine, we bought it with 39,626 miles on it in October 2011 in Seattle, WA. I got some of the previous owner's maintenance records and there is no mention of anything as significant as an engine replacement.

By the way, Jim Litton is the person who bought my 2001 wineberry. Unfortunately, it has developed carb issues also and I'm not sure what the current status is. I just got back to Grand Forks and haven't had a chance to pull the replacement engine cover to replace the one that I lost during my test ride.

I hope this works out well for both of you.

Al
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Al, you have no idea how much this has improved my interest in riding my own ST. Although the '98 is no more, it served a great purpose in making me enjoy riding my ST instead of dreading it. I was very close to getting rid of mine and buying a new bike at the same time yours became available for sale, so the death of the '98 has extended the life of the '97 indefinitely at this point. I can't thank you enough.
 
Road Slug said:
What color is the plastics if you have any left?
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1997 red, but most of it has already been taken. I see you have a '94, which is black IIRC.

I have a tailsection and a front fender. The fender is cracked but is glue-able. The tailsection is intact, but a bit faded. If you're looking for spare parts that you can repaint, PM me, I'll make it worth your trouble.
 
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