Valve Clearance Check ST 1100

Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
261
Age
82
Location
Hoylake UK
Bike
ST 1100 year 2002.
Trying to assemble the correct information for the Valve Clearances for ST 1100 2002 ABS model . The Honda Specifications page does not mention valve clearances . Only in my Haynes manual do they have the important diagram showing cylinders 1 and 3 on the right (1 is in front ). -----2 and 4 on the left (2 is in front ). But I still need a diagram showing which valve is inlet and exhaust. What page is that on ?
Haynes gives Inlet clearance 0.13mm to 0.19mm. ---- and Exhaust clearance 0.22 to 0.28 mm
One instruction in the Haynes confuses me. They have a warning DO NOT use the Timing Rotor Bolt to turn the crankshaft. It may snap or strip out. But then a few inches away they have a photo of a ratchet spanner on the Timing Rotor Bolt telling me to turn the engine in a clockwise direction . They recommend using a high gear and turning the back wheel . They must have very long arms. Perhaps unwinding the plugs will let it turn easily . How could you get an accurate position faffing around with the back wheel ? Laying flat on the floor and adjusting the back wheel with my toes . That`s it .
Is it safe to assume the exhaust valves will be on the outside ? Maybe when I get a bit closer it will all become obvious .
 
These may be of interest:



Yes, remove the plugs. I wouldn’t use the Haynes. The Honda Service Manual is the gold standard for this procedure.

Edit: measure in thousandths of an inch instead of metric… .001” is .0254mm, and you can’t change a clearance with the available shims in increments finer than .025mm (.001”). TruST me. No need to do any math computations! Turning the engine over using the rear wheel with it in gear works if you have a helper and just want to rotate the cam lobes away from the shim cups in order to check the clearance. Personally I like to use the Honda manual sequence and the crank bolt and timing markings. FWIW

Edit2: do not do a carb sync with the Haynes manual!

John
 
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Valve clearance info is in the maintenance section and is as you said

0.16mm +/- 0.03
0.25mm +/- 0.03

Exhaust valves nearest the outside - ie the exhaust pipes.
Inlet valves on the inside nearest the carbs.

I use metric. I suppose it depends what feeler gauge you have !
Shims are labelled in metric - but the imperial measurement tells you how many sizes of shim you have to go down from the present value, which John suggested. (Shims usually need to be replaced with a smaller one)
 
As @jfheath said, the exhaust valves are closest to the exhaust pipes. This works for any engine I've ever seen. I suppose some engines have them reversed (engineers do some pretty surprising* things) but every one I've worked on has the exhaust port near the exhaust valve and the intake nearest the carbs or intake manifold. Remember the days of porting and polishing exhaust ports to get more power? One of the basic tenets of that (boosting power) was to get the burned fuel out of the cylinder as fast as possible. You cannot do that with longer, convoluted exhaust ports, and for fast throttle response, you want the intake tract as short as possible. Thus the appropriate valve will be as close to that exit/intake as possible.

*You can substitute any word for 'surprising', such as 'dumb', 'crazy', etc.
 
Low res JPG version from the link I poSTed above (worksheet by John Hudson, STOC 8086), also available in downloadable pdf version there:

21B3C165-EB57-4E3A-9059-21E641A83619.jpeg
 
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Further tips (I follow...)
- don't trust the numbers on the shims, measure them with a micrometer
- always ensure the blind holes for the cam-shaft holder bolts are clear (place a rag over the assembly and clean the cavities with compressed air one by one)
- take yourself time
- once all valves have been re-shimmed, rotate the engine by hand a couple of times, and to the job again
- use new valve cover gaskets and grommets...
 
I wish the video had subtitles . Normally I slow the speed to 75% to make sure I heard it all . In the workshop he needs a lamp shining towards the ceiling to help the picture . Or one of those reflective things they use for tv shots on dull days . Even though I have been paying attention I suddenly thought "I knew about T1 but what`s T4 ?". On a small Ford car my first attempt at tappets had the car sounding like a diesel till I put it right .
I was surprised he struggled to get the feeler gauge in so tight . There will always be ( 2 ) films of oil between surfaces when it`s running (?)
Checking clearance is fine but I want to avoid the rest of that job . Thanks for the Haynes manual warning .
 
Don't know how long you plan to keep the bike but there are a few extra steps that would make your next check simpler.

For one bank measure clearances, record, pull cams, measure all shims not just the ones that need to be adjusted, and record. If you have a shim kit and the right shims then change out the ones that need to be adjusted or order the shims you need from Honda. Record the new shim thickness as well. Shim kits can have a relatively limited range of shims, ordering from Honda might permit you to refine the clearance a little better. When the bank is finished do the other side the same way.

Advantage of doing this is that next time you do a clearance check you'll already know the shim thickness and if your shim kit has the right sizes, or you can order shims from Honda before you pull the cams and have everything on hand once you do.
 
Inlet = 0.13mm > 0.19mm (5 thou" > 8 thou")
Exhaust = 0.22mm > 0.28mm (9 thou" > 12 thou")

Looking down at the top of the engine, cylinders #2 and #4 are on the (left) side stand side - #1 and #3 are on the (right) twist grip side.

front
Blast - format is totally wrong and I can't alter it.....:mad:

#1
#2

#3
#4
(o)--(o)
(twin cable throttle pulley)

Valves are checked in pairs with a cold engine. Turn the 17mm cam drive pulley bolt clockwise to reposition the valves for testing. Alternately, remove the spark plugs, select top gear, and turn the back wheel in the 'normal' direction. This will rotate the engine quite easily. Double check that the valves are fully shut before measuring.

Cylinder #1 is at T.D.C., when both #1 valves are closed. - T1 to static mark, R. cam line to the outside, aligned with head.
do #1
1/4 turn to T4, L. cam line to inside.
do #4
3/4 turn to T1, R. side line to inside.
do #3
1/4 turn to T4, L. side line to outside
do #2

Perhaps, more simply, make measurements when the cam lobes are exactly opposite the valve.
 
I wish the video had subtitles . Normally I slow the speed to 75% to make sure I heard it all . In the workshop he needs a lamp shining towards the ceiling to help the picture . Or one of those reflective things they use for tv shots on dull days . Even though I have been paying attention I suddenly thought "I knew about T1 but what`s T4 ?". On a small Ford car my first attempt at tappets had the car sounding like a diesel till I put it right .
I was surprised he struggled to get the feeler gauge in so tight . There will always be ( 2 ) films of oil between surfaces when it`s running (?)
Checking clearance is fine but I want to avoid the rest of that job . Thanks for the Haynes manual warning .
The video my friends Fred and Rodger made many years ago is not perfect, but it’s the beST we’ve got… for now (somebody feel free to do another). If you read the errata info as directed in the AOW article, the issue of Rodger forcing the feeler gage is covered (don’t force it). Sorry, I don’t have a picture of the T4 marking but if you follow the steps described in the manual and clearly written on the worksheet you’ll see the mark.

As to the clearance when running — IMO, the engineers at Honda figured out what the gap between the cam lobe and top of the shim bucket should be when the engine is cold, but that when the engine is running and warmed up and the parts heat expand, the gap between the cam and top of the shim bucket closes so that they only have a thin film of oil between when the lobe is not pushing down the bucket/opening the valve. IOW, they figured out the degree of heat induced expansion of the the valve actuation parts. When at operating temperature you don’t want the cam keeping the valve partially open when it should be fully closed! I hope that makes sense…

As to method, I’ve posted many times here on this forum and ST-Riders.net about using SAE instead of metric and forgoing the math and formulas entirely. Look at the marking on the shim in question and look at the shim list to select the one to achieve the desired change (one .025mm increment for each thousanth of an inch change), usually thinner. Doesn’t get simpler than that and is probably the method your shop will use. Remember - .001” = .0254mm (virtually the same increment difference between the Honda shims).

BTW, I have a very expensive metric micrometer and all the Honda shims I’ve measured were exactly as marked.

John

Video errata:

Video Errata
Courtesy Bob Meyer

ERROR 1: In the shim kit video, the narrator explains that you can push a feeler gauge in between the camshaft and bucket with as much force as is necessary to get it in. He says "you can't compress the valve spring with the feeler gauge."

THIS IS A MAJOR ERROR. While it may be true for the very thin feeler gauges used on the intake valves, the feeler gauges used on the exhaust valves are definitely thick enough to compress the valve springs. Jamming the feeler gauges in with the force shown in the video will give erroneous readings.

There is a bit of art involved in knowing how a feeler gauge should "feel." Attached to this explanation is a series of e-mails from the STOC mailing list on this topic. The best advice I've seen in all my years wrenching bikes come from John Walters (aka PenguinBiker):

So the question is: how hard should I have to push the feeler gauge in? Howmuch drag should there be on the gauge that accurately measures the gap?

Get (buy or borrow) a micrometer. [Note: a micrometer is included in the shim kit. Ed.] Take a feeler gauge that is roughly the size you intend to use, then set the micrometer at whatever size the feeler gauge is, drag the feeler gauge through the micrometer.

_That_ is how much drag you should have on the feeler gauge. (Note: if there is a sharp angle on the gauge when you push it in then there will be more drag.)

Error 2: The narrator in the video removes the black plastic covers on the front of the engine that cover the timing belt and cam drive gear. This is not necessary unless you rotate the engine while a camshaft is removed. Needless to say, do not rotate the crankshaft while one or more cams are removed. Removing these covers won't hurt anything, but it's unnecessary work.

Error 3: This one is actually caught and corrected in the video, but the narrator still makes things harder than they need to be. The error is that the narrator confuses metric measurements (the shims) and English measures (the feeler gauges), This is caught and corrected, but the narrator goes to a great deal of effort to convert metric to English and back. The conversion is unnecessary. All the feeler gauges in the kit are marked in metric. If you do all the measurement and calculations in metric, everything will be much simpler.
 
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I had the order 1 4 3 2 already memorised from various car jobs . Thanks for the T1 , T 4 answer . With cars you don`t have to dodge from side to side .
 
Extra tip: Trust John Oo.

Having done this job several times on several brands and models, I've never found it easy. Having just helped Adam check his CB500X, gotta say its the most convoluted process I've ever seen. Changing the shims is simple. Getting to them is a PITA! Necessary step: remove the turn signal blinker. :D
 
The new Kawasaki 800 has a tube down the side of the engine and reminds me of a Panther 100 It`s not the pushrod tube but the shaft for the bevel gears to the camshaft . To change the tappet shims you just need to twist a screwdriver and lift the spring .All very straightforward .
 
Hi all. I have beaten my wee little brain to bits reading and re-reading the valve adjustment process. Some "diving in" anxiety has led to avoidance!! My biggest "concern" is that ideally to use the shims I need, I would remove ALL cams and redistribute as required plus install the additional necessary shims I have purchased. I have done an inventory and cannot easily do one side and then the other. Question: IF I set the engine at T1 and then remove all cams, can I do this? The link John O has in the above that leads to the Mike Martin info, seems to indicate that it is possible to do this. When re-installing, do I simply re-install all cams following the "marks out 1 tooth down/marks in line" process again ensuring that I don't move the crank at all? I have both the Honda and Haynes manuals and will follow Johns's advice and reference the Honda manual for the procedure. They will soon have the sand off the roads here and I'm itching to get out to ride!!
 
Is there a video showing what happens if you drop a shim down into the belly of the beast ?
 
@rjskipper - if you’re nervous about the procedure, do one side at a time and forget about using a shim from the other side to replace one on the side you’re currently on. Acquire the shims you need to put the valves in the middle of the range (thousandths of an inch) and button it up. Then do the other side. Donate any left over shims to the traveling STOC ST1100/1300 Valve Adjustment Shim Kit.

Big tip: before pulling the cams mark a tooth on the cam and also the corresponding ‘v’ that it fit into on the reduction gear. BTDT Insures you can get them right back where they came from.

@Yohan - no video that I know of, just stuff a brightly colored rag in the big drain hole and remember to remove it before buttoning up (makes a BIG oil mess if you forget… it’s happened!). I have heard that fishing a magnet down the hole has actually worked to recover an errant shim. Easier than removing the oil pan. Edit: a shim can’t get through the oil pickup screen, I doubt one at the bottom of the engine would ever do any damage.

John
 
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Trying to assemble the correct information for the Valve Clearances for ST 1100 2002 ABS model . The Honda Specifications page does not mention valve clearances . Only in my Haynes manual do they have the important diagram showing cylinders 1 and 3 on the right (1 is in front ). -----2 and 4 on the left (2 is in front ). But I still need a diagram showing which valve is inlet and exhaust. What page is that on ?
Haynes gives Inlet clearance 0.13mm to 0.19mm. ---- and Exhaust clearance 0.22 to 0.28 mm
One instruction in the Haynes confuses me. They have a warning DO NOT use the Timing Rotor Bolt to turn the crankshaft. It may snap or strip out. But then a few inches away they have a photo of a ratchet spanner on the Timing Rotor Bolt telling me to turn the engine in a clockwise direction . They recommend using a high gear and turning the back wheel . They must have very long arms. Perhaps unwinding the plugs will let it turn easily . How could you get an accurate position faffing around with the back wheel ? Laying flat on the floor and adjusting the back wheel with my toes . That`s it .
Is it safe to assume the exhaust valves will be on the outside ? Maybe when I get a bit closer it will all become obvious .
I will send you a honda manual if you give me your email, it has the specs in it.
 
Thank you John. I had already "taken the plunge" and had both sides apart. Following the Honda shop manual, it is all actually pretty straightforward. You have been very kind in providing your ample wisdom. I thank you! Be well!
Mark
 
Looking at information and video about valve check and adjustment with shims, will not comment on video or information beyond a few things. Have not read the thread here but posting it here instead of starting a new thread.

When valve clearance on exhaust valve is stated to be 0.22 - 0.28 mm it is very wrong to force in a feeler gauge that is too large. In the comment field below it is written that you can set a micrometer to the exact feeler gauge thickness to pull the feeler gauge through to feel how much resistance there is to have a reference when measuring valve clearance. This is also wrong as the cam on the camshaft and valve shim have a much larger surface and will provide greater resistance compared to the surfaces on the micrometer.

In my world you choose a feeler gauge that slides in with light resistance, If you have to use force on the valve feeler gauge over in size then it is too large.




IMG_3394.jpeg
 
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