OP
OP
Hit-Air vest any good?
Wearable Motorcycle Air Bags
- Thread starter AV8R
- Start date
Definitely.
I have a small update on the airbag story (at least in my locale in Windsor, ON which is adjacent to Detroit MI).
I went to my local M/C accessories dealer - The Leather King and enquired about airbags. He is listed as a dealer for Helite products which are very nice. He told me that he had stocked some of the vests and sold them for $788 CAD - which is actually a heck of a good price (particularly for Americans a time the present rate of exchange - $0.75 - so the price to an American would be $788 + 13% HST = $890 => $ 667 USD). I think that is less than they cost on the web.
However, I am leaning toward the Hit Air vest because they are lighter and cooler and somewhat less expensive, but still highly rated. He is investigating the supply chain and will get back to me with a price in due course.
I am fine with that as it is much too cold to ride right now anyway. I will keep you posted.
Pete
I went to my local M/C accessories dealer - The Leather King and enquired about airbags. He is listed as a dealer for Helite products which are very nice. He told me that he had stocked some of the vests and sold them for $788 CAD - which is actually a heck of a good price (particularly for Americans a time the present rate of exchange - $0.75 - so the price to an American would be $788 + 13% HST = $890 => $ 667 USD). I think that is less than they cost on the web.
However, I am leaning toward the Hit Air vest because they are lighter and cooler and somewhat less expensive, but still highly rated. He is investigating the supply chain and will get back to me with a price in due course.
I am fine with that as it is much too cold to ride right now anyway. I will keep you posted.
Pete
DO THEY WORK. Having done my fair share of crash test dummy work and going to an awful lot of KSI RTA's involving motorcyclists I do not believe airbags would be the answer to a lot of the injuries that are common to motorcyclists. I take Daboo's point and yes if you are going to ride straight on into a solid immovable object a good air cushion might help, but then again it might not. Afterall many car drivers come to a nasty horrible end when they drive into trees etc, this because the sudden halt is too much for our delicate human bodies.
This is only my experience but the parts of us that are likely to be injured are fingers, hands, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles and heads if helmets are not worn. Backs can be and are damaged so CE back armour should obviously be worn.
Before opting for an airbag I would ensure your gloves, body armour, helmets and boots are up to speed. An airbag will do nothing to protect hands which are in old, likely to fail gloves or heads in out of date or poorly fitting helmets.
If you can justify an airbag on top of all the other protection, that's just fine, but I'm not convinced they work in a road based accident in the vast majority of cases. I can only think that they will cause heat build up in summer which would lead to a lowering of concentration and an increased risk of an RTA.
Just my two'penneth.
Upt'North.
This is only my experience but the parts of us that are likely to be injured are fingers, hands, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles and heads if helmets are not worn. Backs can be and are damaged so CE back armour should obviously be worn.
Before opting for an airbag I would ensure your gloves, body armour, helmets and boots are up to speed. An airbag will do nothing to protect hands which are in old, likely to fail gloves or heads in out of date or poorly fitting helmets.
If you can justify an airbag on top of all the other protection, that's just fine, but I'm not convinced they work in a road based accident in the vast majority of cases. I can only think that they will cause heat build up in summer which would lead to a lowering of concentration and an increased risk of an RTA.
Just my two'penneth.
Upt'North.
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I did a lot of research on both brands of airbag vests. I tried to find pictures showing them inflated, what that covered and what it didn't cover. I think the Helite vest had a built-in back protector, but my Olympia jacket had one as well, so I felt that area was protected even though the Hit-Air didn't have one.
In the end, I went with the Hit-Air. It seemed to do everything the Helite vest did at about $100 or more less. I've seen sales that put the Helite vest at the same price. In the end, I think both vests will protect you for what they are designed for.
Upt' North has some very valid points. If you don't have all the rest of the riding gear, a vest won't help for those injuries. A friend of mine has gone down about 4 times now. In his last accident, he got some "nice" roadrash on his legs and a one-inch hole just below the knee where something metal punctured the leg. He still won't wear anything but blue jeans. Your hands are the first thing out in front of you to stop your fall and slide. Getting a pair of shorty gloves with some loose mesh material on them won't do much for your hands. I've seen pictures of a rider's foot where he was wearing sneakers when he went down. There wasn't much left but the bones. It was like someone took a knife and fork and went to work trying to pick out all the meat they could get to. I'm glad I don't know that person. It would be heartbreaking to see them go through whatever healing process they went through.
An airbag vest is just one more layer of protection as part of a total package of trying to stack the odds in your favor should you go down.
And if you think one is expensive, just compare that cost with what one night in the Emergency Room costs. Or how much income you'll lose over the next 4-6 months as you heal. Or what the pain level will be...that is priceless.
Chris
If I do that calculation I wouldn't ride a motorcycle on a public road, ever again. Instead... I live in ignorance and full gear. ATGATT!!
Yup, it is all about risk management.
Also, it is always possible to dream up a scenario where a given piece of safety gear would not help and might even make things worse. When sI at belts first came out, people were all in a flap bleating “but what if your car goes off a bridge into the water - you’ll be trapped by the seat belt and you will drown”.
Bunk - you will simply undo the seatbelt and be grateful that you didn’t have a face or chest to steering wheel collision and can still function well enough to get out of the vehicle.
The very nature of emergencies is that you do NOT get to choose when, where or how they occur - so, in my view, the only logical thing to do is take as many precautions as you see fit / can afford / can put up with and then carry on secure in the knowledge that you’ve done what you can.
In the nuclear industry, it is called “defense in-depth” and with just a few notable exceptions, (largely in the east bloc where they have not adopted this design philosophy), it has protected us from accidents for more than 50 years. No system is perfect, but the best you can do is invariably better than doing nothing, IMO.
Also, it is always possible to dream up a scenario where a given piece of safety gear would not help and might even make things worse. When sI at belts first came out, people were all in a flap bleating “but what if your car goes off a bridge into the water - you’ll be trapped by the seat belt and you will drown”.
Bunk - you will simply undo the seatbelt and be grateful that you didn’t have a face or chest to steering wheel collision and can still function well enough to get out of the vehicle.
The very nature of emergencies is that you do NOT get to choose when, where or how they occur - so, in my view, the only logical thing to do is take as many precautions as you see fit / can afford / can put up with and then carry on secure in the knowledge that you’ve done what you can.
In the nuclear industry, it is called “defense in-depth” and with just a few notable exceptions, (largely in the east bloc where they have not adopted this design philosophy), it has protected us from accidents for more than 50 years. No system is perfect, but the best you can do is invariably better than doing nothing, IMO.
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OP
OP
That foot bone image is forever ingrained in my mind...
Uggg
Uggg
I'll be at NEWSTOC...you can get even with me there.
Chris
Chris
amorley
Site Supporter
I bought an XL Helite Turtle Airbag Vest Hi-Viz. I have been wearing it over my Aerostich Roadcrafter R3 Lite suit (XL Long) which has upgraded TF5 armour and the back pad armour. Although the vest is not light, it fits well and I don't really notice it when riding, or walking around. I have attached the lanyard to the metal front seat mount on my BMW K1600GTS so that I can stand on the foot pegs without accidentally inflating.
As stated earlier, I have only a few hundred miles experience in January riding with the Helite Vest. My first significant ride will be at the end of April which will be a bit more than 3,500 miles. I'll update my opinion on the vest after that ride.
Andy
ST Gui
240Robert
ZACKLEY! ATGATT is hot and sweaty in the summer heat yet people assess the risk and make the choice to wear it regardless. Few people go stands-up knowing this is the day they'll need the gear, and fewer still think 'no matter what happens this gear will keep me absolutely safe'. But there are many more who say 'Ya know there was a guy last week who was crashed his car at 50mph and his airbag and lap/shoulder restraint didn't save him. Why even bother?' You're supposed to defer to their assessment? 'Cause they have the answers?MaxPete said:
I knew someone who hated wearing seat belts back before there were should restraints. 'I feel like I'm confined... What if... Or if...' ad nauseam. Sometime later in a instance of karma he lost control of the car while trying to execute a fast sharp turn and slid across the vinyl bench seat (remember those?) while trying to hold onto the steering wheel. He was banged up pretty good but survived well enough.
It's good to cover the bases on probabilities. But dismissing safety gear because of an improbable vulnerability seems like a fool's errand.
Mr Morley. As you are a BMW man I was wondering if BMW have ever gone down the air bag route like the GW. For all I know there may be one on your 16. Just curious.
Upt'North.
I have a Hit Air Jacket
I'll toss in some food for thought...
On the Rounders forum several years ago was an interesting thread on guardrails. There's been some studies on the disastrous effect on a rider's body depending on which type you hit. It's not good.
Chris
On the Rounders forum several years ago was an interesting thread on guardrails. There's been some studies on the disastrous effect on a rider's body depending on which type you hit. It's not good.
Chris
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
A little story that explains my opinion on the value of air bags.
I used to have a 2005 Pontiac. Being a 2005 it only had two front airbags. In 2011 I was hit really hard by a drunk driver. She hit me in the left front of the car and crushed the drivers door. Amongst many other injuries the impact knocked me out and gave me a concussion. The crushed door broke nine of my ribs on my left side. These were the least of my injuries BTW. Many new cars have well over ten air bags including side curtain air bags to protect your head. They also have air bags that deploy to protect you from side impact like I sustained. All of these air bags would have significantly reduced or prevented many of the injuries that I sustained.
People can argue all they want about the value and benefit of safety equipment. They are free to choose not to use it if they so desire. But to claim that they do not to want to use it based on a scientifically refuted premise that they cause a greater overall danger than not using it, in my opinion, does a grave disservice to anyone whom they may convince not to use it as well. I know from personal experience what not having air bags can result in. There is no way that I would not have fared better with more air bags. I wish I was in a car equipped with a few dozen air bags back in 2011.
I have concluded, literally from the school of hard knocks and beyond the shadow of any doubt in my mind, that there are far more circumstances than less where an airbag will be of value in a motorcycle crash. Will it save you from everything? Of course not. You will be better off with it than without it. I do not regard anyone who does not have one as foolish by any means. Everyone can choose as they see fit. I don't have one myself and am not sure why to be honest. It just seems unfair to me to tell others, whom you may convince not to use it, that you choose not to have a piece of safety equipment because it is dangerous. Many people don't wear helmets- no one can credibly claim that they are safer without them. The same goes for air bags.
It is a good thing this thread was started. It might be the motivation I was lacking to look in to this more seriously.
I used to have a 2005 Pontiac. Being a 2005 it only had two front airbags. In 2011 I was hit really hard by a drunk driver. She hit me in the left front of the car and crushed the drivers door. Amongst many other injuries the impact knocked me out and gave me a concussion. The crushed door broke nine of my ribs on my left side. These were the least of my injuries BTW. Many new cars have well over ten air bags including side curtain air bags to protect your head. They also have air bags that deploy to protect you from side impact like I sustained. All of these air bags would have significantly reduced or prevented many of the injuries that I sustained.
People can argue all they want about the value and benefit of safety equipment. They are free to choose not to use it if they so desire. But to claim that they do not to want to use it based on a scientifically refuted premise that they cause a greater overall danger than not using it, in my opinion, does a grave disservice to anyone whom they may convince not to use it as well. I know from personal experience what not having air bags can result in. There is no way that I would not have fared better with more air bags. I wish I was in a car equipped with a few dozen air bags back in 2011.
I have concluded, literally from the school of hard knocks and beyond the shadow of any doubt in my mind, that there are far more circumstances than less where an airbag will be of value in a motorcycle crash. Will it save you from everything? Of course not. You will be better off with it than without it. I do not regard anyone who does not have one as foolish by any means. Everyone can choose as they see fit. I don't have one myself and am not sure why to be honest. It just seems unfair to me to tell others, whom you may convince not to use it, that you choose not to have a piece of safety equipment because it is dangerous. Many people don't wear helmets- no one can credibly claim that they are safer without them. The same goes for air bags.
It is a good thing this thread was started. It might be the motivation I was lacking to look in to this more seriously.
Could you tell us about it please?
- How does it fit and feel?
- What size jacket do you wear and what size vest did you select?
- Where did you purchase it and were you happy with that purchase?
Pete
OP
OP
"It is a good thing this thread was started. It might be the motivation I was lacking to look in to this more seriously"
Bingo, theres method to my madness.
Bingo, theres method to my madness.
Andrew, I can't read anywhere that someone has stated they don't work. I could have missed it though. My question was, "Do they work".
I can see that in certain RTA types there could be a benefit, but who says they work. I would love to see some non biased testing but I don't think I've seen anything like that. I can certainly see for highsiding incidents and hitting road furniture then yes there should be an advantage but I can't say there is, I'm not clever enough. I would wholeheartedly agree that airbags in cars have more than served their purpose, but being strapped in a car is very different to flying through the air. If someone has got a decent non manufacturer test please post it, I can't find one. I don't say any of this to slag off airbags, I hope they work, I hope they prevent serious injuries.
But again, Do They.
Upt'North.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I did not mean to imply that anyone in this discussion, or anywhere for that matter, had stated that they don't work. My comment was intended to be more general in nature. I meant it to be applicable to using any unproven claim of danger imposed by the use of safety equipment as a reason for not using it regardless of what the safety equipment is- not just wearable air bags. I find this to be irresponsible to the discussion of safety equipment.
An example of that would be what was written by Pete about people who use to cite the danger of seatbelts if you end up underwater- red herring argument. Maybe a better example is the recent Tenaka airbag recall. There were quite a few people who were seriously injured and several who were killed by these airbags. I don't think that it is now a reasonable or scientifically/statistaclly valid argument to claim that airbags are dangerous and that they should not be used. They are overwhelmingly of more benefit than harm but there were some people who did make this claim when that scandal was going on.
An example of that would be what was written by Pete about people who use to cite the danger of seatbelts if you end up underwater- red herring argument. Maybe a better example is the recent Tenaka airbag recall. There were quite a few people who were seriously injured and several who were killed by these airbags. I don't think that it is now a reasonable or scientifically/statistaclly valid argument to claim that airbags are dangerous and that they should not be used. They are overwhelmingly of more benefit than harm but there were some people who did make this claim when that scandal was going on.
amorley
Site Supporter
My K1600GT does not have an airbag.
None of the BMW K1600 models come with an integral airbag. I do not believe BMW have ever installed them on any model. As in most get-offs the rider separates from the bike, I believe an airbag jacket/vest is a better solution.
So to answer your other question, yes they do work. This opinion is based on MotoGP’s new rules for all riders to now wear airbag systems.
Airbags: compulsory from 2018
New regulations designed to increase rider safety set to come into force for the new season
www.motogp.com
Andy
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