"Actions speak louder than words, but not nearly as often."
Love that sig norcalbusa!
Love that sig norcalbusa!
All about radar
- Thread starter NorCalBusa
- Start date
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
That's why speeding tickets get categorized under "Entertainment" when I pay them.
I've been popped for speeding three times in 29 years. Fortunately, my tickets have been far enough apart (and with different insurance companies) that nobody took notice and hiked my rates.
I don't remember exactly what I paid on each one, but if I figure $120 each, I figure that comes to about $12.50 a year for all the speeding I've gotten away with. As the late Earl Scheib would have said, "What a bargain!"
--Mark
drrod
Site Supporter
I am pretty sure that few, if any here supports unfettered excess speed. IMHO, the issues are:
- artificially low speed for the road (eg. 50 mph on wide open 2+ lanes, good sightlines, limited access).
- unreasonably reducing speed limit for no reason (one of the more famous ones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio)
- jurisdictions more and more relying on traffic violations for a revenue source leading to all kinds of "abuse". Probably more prevalent in small towns.
- having poor to no chance of having your argument against the citation being seriously considered in court.
- using radar to pick the low hanging fruit and ignoring other violations (tail gating, cell phone/text, impeding flow of traffic, etc) because they are not as "easy"
- structuring the system so it is more economical to pay than to fight
- less and less common sense and reason being shown by LEO's because they are under more and more pressure to produce revenue.
- etc
- etc
- etc
If "they" are truly concerned about the safety factor on the roads, the issue of licensing/training would be addressed. Don't hear much about that happening.
I long for the good old days when Montana's 'reasonable and prudent" was in effect. Speed without using common sense and you paid. Drive/ride with common sense and you were left alone. Unfortunately, common sense (on both sides) is becoming less and less common.
All that being said, my most recent stop involved a very reasonable LEO. We were doing 35 in a 25 (didn't realize it was so low. Last sign, that I saw, was several miles back, just before the tunnel) just before leaving Zion National Park. LEO was very polite and friendly (as were we), and dispensed some riding advice along with a warning. We were not presenting any danger to anyone (including ourselves), road was good, traffic was light, good weather, etc. Granted, we were over the limit but it was handled by the LEO in such a way as to leave us with a good impression rather than reducing his credibility as to being there to "serve and protect". Being older, fully ATGATT, not being hooligans probably helped.
Rod
I have received several well-deserved tickets. I've also been let off a few times when I've deserved one but had a generous officer. What bothers me is when they aren't deserved.
There are multiple reasons why the "human factor" should be removed, as much as possible, from the ticket process. Officers are human, and can make mistakes or have days of poor judgement, as well as- yes- a percentage of them being dishonest. There is also the pressure by some departments to increase revenue "by any means". As long as the ticket giver- or those above him- isn't an impartial element, and will benefit from writing tickets- it encourages dishonesty or even just making the wrong judgement call.
Rodneypieon
Rodney
Yes they are harder to detect, smaller targets always are. Having said that only when the operator is using Lidar does it play a huge factor because the operator must visually lock the set on to the target whereas in radar the machine takes care of getting the reading and the newer sets are better and better all the time. In a head on shot as you describe with any modern moving radar you would be picked up at least a half mile away. Maybe the set just wasn't on or it was stationary radar in the crusier, who knows.
Rodneypieon
Rodney
Depending on the circumstances it is an offence under our Highway Traffic Act to block any lane and if we had a policy for that we would need one for every offence in that legislation so the short answer is no we don't.
I have noted that people on the other side of the pond are much better drivers than North American ones. Visited my wife's Aunt in England a few years back and she is in her 80s. She would do well against any 40 year old over here in driving. If I were to generalize the drivers in North America appear selfish and feel privileged when it comes to driving and think the gov't is out to regulate and control their lives. The Europeans don't seem to share this mindset and are much better drivers for it.
Rodneypieon
Rodney
There are still K band radars around and I am not sure of the sensitivity range of that detector but most modern sets are Ka now which is a different higher frequency than K. X band radars are no longer approved for use in Ontario and are the lowest frequency sets so based on just that I would bet it wouldn't be worth the install time.
As far as the nose dive is concerned, if the officer is first properly trained and a good operator, has you "lit up" by radar, and locked in a reading you are toast as a general rule. If they are using Lidar and have had the time to get a reading before you nose dive, again you are done. The nose dive will only work if you are too close to give them time to acquire you visually when they see you at speed and then you dramatically change that speed.
How fast you ask, if a Lidar operator can see you, get a direct line of sight to you, and target the Lidar on your vehicle properly to get a reading from you - 1/3 of a second is what it takes to get a reading at any distance within the range of the Lidar set. Radar is almost as fast. These are simple generalities because it is a fluid situation with many variables and would take too long to explain. Just to let you know my level of understanding, I was the master instructor for my police service who could certify operators and instructors in lidar and radar operation.
Your PS is the best way to go if you are speeding at a speed that gets you attention.
drrod
Site Supporter
So the signs that say either "Slower Traffic Keep Right" or "Keep Right Except to Pass" (I have seen both here in Canada) are merely advisory and carry no legislative backing?
Rod
STBernard
BlewBayou
Speed enforcement should be about safety of the masses. When/If it becomes more about revenue generation, I have a problem with it. If the intent is to slow people down to keep at suggested limits, why do they have to "hide" or set up "traps" and resort to electronic wizardry technology? If I don't see you, I am less likely to check my speed against the last sign I passed some time ago. But if I see a LEO, you can bet I am checking that speed. I have seen a dozen troopers in cars, motorcycles and planes working speed traps on our interstates, but in a short section of say of mile or two. Everyone slows down for that short section. Great, just great. Pat yourself on the back. But having those dozens of troopers spread out over 100 miles, being seen by more people and more places seems to be more effective in slowing folks down.... but, oh, I forgot..... there is no revenue generation in that.
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
I can't speak for Canada, but the standard for signage in the U.S. says that signs that are white with a black background or black with a white background are regulatory. Presumably, any highway administration putting up that kind of sign would have the law behind it.
--Mark
OP
OP
In California, CHP get none of the traffic fine, city agencies and sheriff's get a miniscule amount (something less than 10%). I know a BUNCH of CHP and traffic cops who all tell me- Revenue isn't the driver here.
NJ Keep Right Except to pass. NJSA 39:4-88 2pts.
As for hiding and plain sight I've seen both tactics inlcluding empty vehicles and multiple units in a concentrated area.
.02 Varied tactics means I don't know when it's safe to speed. Kinda the point.
The one that's dirty pool in my book is a tropper violating the above statute priming the pump and then pull off an exit leaving his buddy ready to pounce a quater mile down the road.
As for hiding and plain sight I've seen both tactics inlcluding empty vehicles and multiple units in a concentrated area.
.02 Varied tactics means I don't know when it's safe to speed. Kinda the point.
The one that's dirty pool in my book is a tropper violating the above statute priming the pump and then pull off an exit leaving his buddy ready to pounce a quater mile down the road.
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Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Somebody is getting that money, and I'd bet anything that if it slowed to a trickle, that somebody would get their shorts in a knot over it and start applying pressure for more enforcement.
--Mark
California law below:
21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.
As a note, if the vehicle is traveling at the speed limit, it is not required to stay in the right lane.
Hey Jeff, haven't seen you for a few years, how's it going? Next time you're in SD give me a call, we're way overdue for a cold beer.
Doug
I think that's the literal interpretation of the wording, but with 7 lanes heading in the same direction it becomes a free-for-all. Half the cars on the road here don't follow that rule, even with 2 lanes in the same direction.
OP
OP
I disagree. The money flows to the courts by the way, who (like all Kalifornia officials) are expert at spending every dime and more. The notion of LEO's writing citations for revenue here is simply untrue.
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
I doubt very much that California's courts get to keep that money to spend on whatever it is that keeps judges and lawyers entertained. Or maybe they do and the state chops that much out of their operating budgets. In Virginia, what the courts collect ends up in the hands of the counties where the tickets are issued. The budget for county where I live has about $2.3M in revenue line items that are directly associated with fines for traffic infractions. It's a tiny fraction of our $1.8B budget, but it's not chump change, either.
Sure, because if somebody came out and told the people who write those tickets that they weren't raking in enough revenue, there'd be a whole lot of police officers not writing tickets. We had that happen in Virginia after they expanded the definition of reckless driving and adopted "abusive driver fees" that put huge surcharges on drivers who got those tickets. The state police made no bones about writing tickets that wouldn't trigger those fees because they knew very well it wasn't about safety. That, combined with an uproar from the proletariat, eventually brought the whole thing to an end when the law was repealed a year later. The legislator who championed that program is, coincidentally, the owner of a large law firm that specializes in traffic cases. No revenue opportunity there.
I work in engineering, and I'm all about measurement. The bottom line for me is that if the quantity and locations of speed traps are selected for any reason other than as a response to a measured increase in accidents, it isn't about safety. I also think there's far too much emphasis on speeding, but that's another discussion.
Speaking of same, this is getting a little off the topic; what say we move these posts to another thread?
--Mark
drrod
Site Supporter
I will nudge this thread back to the original intent a little......
Ka band radar is being used in a lot of self-propelled agriculture implements now. eg. tractors, sprayers.
They are doing this to take wheel slippage out of the equation when time/distance is critical for the process being done. So how does this relate to this thread you ask? Your radar detector will light up like a christmas tree when you get close to these. Out in the middle of nowhere, nothing but a farmer going about his business, and you have a mild heart attack when your detector goes nuts.
A question of another sort if I may.....why does my detector (V1) sometimes give off an alarm (usually K band) when there is no source that can be determined. The instance that stands out the most for me was on Hiway 191 in north central Montana. If anyone has ridden it you know that you can see your dog run away for 3 days. My detector kept going off over the course of about 10 miles. No visible reason. Was I being tracked by a F16?
BTW - my friend's 9500xi was doing the same thing.
Rod
Ka band radar is being used in a lot of self-propelled agriculture implements now. eg. tractors, sprayers.
They are doing this to take wheel slippage out of the equation when time/distance is critical for the process being done. So how does this relate to this thread you ask? Your radar detector will light up like a christmas tree when you get close to these. Out in the middle of nowhere, nothing but a farmer going about his business, and you have a mild heart attack when your detector goes nuts.
A question of another sort if I may.....why does my detector (V1) sometimes give off an alarm (usually K band) when there is no source that can be determined. The instance that stands out the most for me was on Hiway 191 in north central Montana. If anyone has ridden it you know that you can see your dog run away for 3 days. My detector kept going off over the course of about 10 miles. No visible reason. Was I being tracked by a F16?
BTW - my friend's 9500xi was doing the same thing.
Rod